Unapologetically Childfree by choice, we dive into a real and often overlooked topic: the intense fear of pregnancy, or tokophobia. In this episode, hosts Maggie and Kellie openly share their journeys, how pregnancy fears impact their childfree choices, and the challenges around societal expectations for women. This conversation covers everything from traumatic pregnancy experiences to the pressure many feel to follow a traditional path that doesn’t align with everyone. Whether you’re childfree yourself or want to understand this lifestyle more deeply, we’re here to start an honest dialogue. We also address how current healthcare access affects childfree individuals and why choosing a childfree path can be a liberating decision for many. Join us as we talk about pregnancy phobia, childfree choices, and much more!
🌟 HIghlights: 📍 The Reality of Tokophobia: Dive into our deep conversation about tokophobia, the often unspoken fear of pregnancy, and how it impacts those choosing to live childfree. 📺 Breaking Down Societal Expectations: Explore how societal expectations around motherhood shape the lives of childfree women and challenge the norms that define "womanhood" in mainstream culture. 💡 Real Talk on Reproductive Health: Gain critical insight into reproductive health and the impact of limited healthcare access on those making childfree choices in a society that often stigmatizes them. 🧠 Mental Health & Pregnancy Phobia: Discover the psychological impact of pregnancy fears, including how tokophobia intersects with mental health and the ways it shapes personal life choices. 🗣 Join the Discussion: Share your thoughts in the comments, and don’t forget to subscribe for more empowering conversations on Unapologetically Childfree! 💬 Share your experiences and insights in the comments section below, and let's continue the conversation! 🔔 Hit subscribe and notify so you don't miss out on valuable insights into creating a thriving childfree community. ⏰ ep. 019—Timestamps 0:00 – Intro & Content Warning 3:45 – Fear of Pregnancy & Tokophobia Defined 10:55 – Society’s Pressure to Have Kids 18:30 – Navigating Pregnancy Fears in a Relationship 25:15 – Healthcare Barriers & Fear of Pregnancy 32:50 – Talking About Trauma: Why It’s Important 38:30 – Psychological Impact of Tokophobia 43:55 – Abortion Rights and Reproductive Health as a Childfree Person 50:30 – Finding Community Support & Empowerment 55:00 – Wrap Up & Final Thoughts 🔗 Links: 🏝️ COME TO BALI WITH US! https://unapologeticallychildfree.com/bali 📸 Instagram: https://unapologeticallychildfree.com/instagram 📧 Join my email list for additional Childfree Content: https://unapologeticallychildfree.com/emaillist 📕 Childfree Woman’s Path: Friends not FOMO (My ebook and journal) https://unapologeticallychildfree.com/childfreepath Unapologetically Childfree! 🎙️✨ Hey there, Maggie Dickens here, thrilled you’re part of the Unapologetically Childfree Community– your go-to spot for finding the childfree community you never knew existed and can no longer live without. We cover all things childfree, where we share laughs, explore, and embrace life without kids and without apologies. 🎙️ Our Vibe: Imagine a cozy chat with a friend who gets the childfree lifestyle – that's our channel. From breaking stereotypes to sharing hilarious experiences, we're a community celebrating life without kids. This isn't just a podcast; it's a place for friends. Our guests are our friends, mentors, authors, experts, and listeners. Real people, real stories, and real talk about choosing a childfree life. Get ready for inspiration, camaraderie, and a few "aha" moments. 🌟 Why Subscribe? Whether proudly childfree, considering the lifestyle, or curious, we've got something for you. Expect laughs, empowerment, and genuine stories from real people navigating life without kids. 🚨 Important Notice: Please Read I'm Maggie Dickens, your Childfree Hype Woman, and licensed therapist. While I bring you valuable insights and tips based on my education and personal experiences, it's crucial to clarify a few things. 🧠 This Is Not Therapy: - Although I'm a therapist, this channel is NOT a substitute for mental health care or therapy. The content provided is for educational and entertainment purposes only. 🌟 Your Well-being Matters: - Your mental and physical health are top priorities. If you're in crisis, please reach out to local emergency services or a mental health helpline immediately. 🦄 Childfree Journey Insights: - Unapologetically Childfree is centered around embracing the childfree lifestyle, offering tips, tricks, and real-world examples. It's a space for community, celebration, and sharing experiences. Thank you for being a part of this incredible community! Let's continue to support and uplift one another on our childfree journeys. 🌈✨ 🤖Disclaimer: This description was created in collaboration between me and AI.
[00:00:00] Maggie: Before we jump into anything today, I want to give just a quick content warning because We are going to be talking about fears of being pregnant. So content warning for Tokophobia all things pregnancy, including the experience of being pregnant and pregnancy loss. So if that is something that is not your jam, please just log off now and catch us on our next episode.
[00:00:24] If you are interested. Come along for the ride because Kellie and I have some fears and some thoughts.
[00:00:30] Hey, hey, welcome back to Unapologetically Childfree where you find that childfree community that you never knew existed and now you can't live without. I'm Maggie Dickens, a licensed therapist, and most importantly, I'm your childfree hype woman.
[00:00:43] Kellie: I'm Kellie Altruda and I love underwater basket weaving.
[00:00:47] Maggie: We're going to talk about that one day because
[00:00:49] Kellie: we're going to need
[00:00:50] Maggie: to know more. We're
[00:00:51] Kellie: going to need to know more. I may not be able to give you the intel. I don't know.
[00:00:55] Maggie: All right. Before we get into the heavy topic of I'm terrified of being pregnant and I know [00:01:00] that you share this fear, let's first "wine down" a little bit.
[00:01:04] Cheers from Portugal. Cheers. From the United States.
[00:01:08]
[00:01:08] Maggie: Oh, tell me what you've been doing. What have you
[00:01:11] Kellie: been up to this week? This week? Currently it is a holiday in the United States, Labor Day weekend.
[00:01:19] And I have decided that it is the ceremonious time to remove. What we lovingly call trash pool out of our backyard. And it's just one of those like 12 foot, diameter intext pools that you pop up. And then when you're sick of it, you take it down or you can leave it up year round. No people that do that.
[00:01:37] But it is, so we lovingly call it trash pool because it's I love how this came about. So yes,
[00:01:44] Maggie: please, please share this term because I was, you, I was around, you do know the origin of this, right? Right. Okay. I was part of this conversation. Yes.
[00:01:53] Kellie: So there was it was a social media platform. I will not name names.
[00:01:58] There's a group of [00:02:00] women who like I know through my husband's occupation, It's our group of friends. You and I met. It's just, it was, no, this was a broader one. This was a broader one. And let's just say one of these women had posted like a call out for people to post their pools.
[00:02:15] Kellie: Like they were, they had just gotten a bonus and they're like, okay, we're going to spend it on a pool. Right? I don't remember this part at all. Oh yeah. It was, it was a local group. So I live where I live in the Southwest where it's very hot in the in the summer, it's nice in the winter, hot in the summer.
[00:02:32] So like having a pool is kind of a necessity and we bought a house that didn't have a pool. And so our neighbor showed us that she just set up this little, 10 foot diameter, like the blow up ring on the top. Pool and my husband and I were like, that's perfect. It's like a hundred bucks, comes with a filter.
[00:02:53] I'm like, when we're done with it, we have a big giant patio space. So we decided to, did
[00:02:59] Maggie: [00:03:00] you pour the concrete or the concrete was already there?
[00:03:03] Kellie: No, the concrete was already there. We already had a pad there. So it was perfect. I think that the prior owners had a hot tub out there or something. I know that
[00:03:11] Maggie: you also put like a little, one of those like fire pit.
[00:03:14] Kellie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the rest of the year we have a little fire pit out there and I mean, we never use it. So, but it's really cute. It's really cute. It is really cute. It's a definite shame. We have an awesome little backyard. So, this woman posted and she wanted to see, Images of everybody's pools, right?
[00:03:30] So like all these women were posting. Oh, well, I have this resort style pool It's amazing. And here's the contractor we used them, you know going on and I mean these pools were like I'm like, wow and I design pools and yards for people and I was like, wow, these are pretty damn cool and I don't know, it may have been the wine talking,
[00:03:52] but I took a picture of a trash pool, with a giant swan floatie in it, which
[00:03:58] Maggie: was as
[00:03:59] Kellie: [00:04:00] big as the pool, right? And I posted it, and it was, my backyard was dirt at the time, because I had grass and it all died. Of course. And I posted it. And slowly the likes started coming in. I think I had like 50 likes on that photo.
[00:04:15] I had more likes than anyone else. And one of the women wrote, you're my hero now. So I was like, I think my, the only thing I wrote was best 120 bucks I've ever spent in my life. Yeah. So. I just remember. We get this trash pool every, we, we put one up every year and I mean, they'll last like three or four years and it's probably not like the most environmentally.
[00:04:36] I mean, not so much.
[00:04:37] Maggie: No. But neither is, I mean, but neither is like, filling. A 10 foot deep or 5 foot deep like thing and throwing a bunch of chemicals in it and right.
[00:04:49] Kellie: That's true. That's true. No. So it's, it's, it, it all is, it all is bad, but it's existing
[00:04:56] Maggie: in this world. I have figured out like just being like a human is bad [00:05:00] for the environment.
[00:05:01] Kellie: Well, I mean, we do have natural ways of cooling off. It's called lakes and streams, but yeah, but
[00:05:07] Maggie: we've ruined those too.
[00:05:09] Kellie: We have, we have like, so we have unrightfully. So ruin them. You are correct. Yeah, but yeah, so trash pools coming down. Every year I get really excited and I'm like, maybe this is going to be the last year that I wanted to pull up.
[00:05:23] I know you did. I tried. Wait, how do you remember the story of getting called trash pool?
[00:05:29] Maggie: So I remember you already had trash pool before lockdown. And, but I didn't remember that's what it was called. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't think that it was called that until we were in our You know, Marco Polo group where we're like, you know, we have nothing else to do.
[00:05:50] So we were talking to each other literally all day and one of our friends who lives in another state Who lovingly just [00:06:00] refers to that entire state as trash? That she lives in so it's just one of those things Mainly, but mainly because of the, the political leanings of said state.
[00:06:09] You know, she just kind of like lumps it, you know, lumps it in. And I think she, I thought that that's how it was because, because she was referring to everything as kind of like, you know, The state is trash, the state is trash.
[00:06:20] Kellie: I th I think that it, it kind of just got reinforced in that. Okay. But yeah, it was, it was trash pool.
[00:06:27] We, we lovingly have called it trash pool since about 2016. I love it.
[00:06:32] Maggie: I love it. And yeah, I wanted one, but I had to get a concrete pad first and then right where I was, it was not, not the time, not the place like, you know, you told
[00:06:42] Kellie: should have got in a trash pool and just put it on the grass.
[00:06:45] Maggie: And then left.
[00:06:45] Yeah. And then left the house and the relationship like I did and been like, deuces. You deal with it? Yeah. I, I would like to be a lot more petty and vindictive than I actually am, but apparently I was just like born too nice. [00:07:00] Like.
[00:07:00] Kellie: It's okay. I think it's okay to like fantasize about being petty. It's okay.
[00:07:05] I, I would rather be the one to fantasize about it than actually like pull it off. So. Fair.
[00:07:11] Maggie: Fair. Yeah. Fair. That's, that's absolutely true. And
[00:07:14] Kellie: just start writing novels where you get to, like, enact your pettiness.
[00:07:19] Maggie: Are you gonna write a book one day?
[00:07:21] Kellie: No. Maggie, I can't, I can't, like, you've seen some of my writing on, like, Facebook posts.
[00:07:27] Like, it's very elementary. It's very pedestrian. Oh.
[00:07:31] Maggie: No. No. No. I think, here, here's the reason why I think that you would be not as successful writing a book as you would want to be. It is because, Let's hear it. Bring it. Because of your neuro spicy brain. I think it's the same reason I could not write like a full book.
[00:07:46] Like I have an e book about how women can find fulfilling friendships as a childfree woman. Yeah. I think that things like, I don't know, like 60 pages or something. It took me forever because I would like, I can't [00:08:00] imagine that thing. And like squirrel brain, like, I just don't, I do not have the ability.
[00:08:06] One of the things I love about authors and this is this is my like cool thing of the moment So since the last time that you and I talked I have been on a video call with this woman named Chelsea Fagan And if you're not familiar, like I have this like business woman on woman crush on her And she started the financial diet.
[00:08:28] She is in she's a romance author.
[00:08:31] Kellie: Yes.
[00:08:33] Maggie: So Chelsea's amazing. And I reached out to her and I was like Hey, I'd like to promote your new book. Is there any way that we can like work together? Like shot in the dark. Right. Right. So she was super nice. So at the end of the month.
[00:08:47] September 28th. We're going to have a one hour to two hour long virtual book discussion with her about her new book, A Perfect Vintage, [00:09:00] which is a modern romance that is drum roll, please. The main character is and remains childfree. I
[00:09:10] Kellie: know. You had no accidental pregnancies? Nothing? Yeah. No epilogue. Good.
[00:09:16] No epilogue that was
[00:09:17] Maggie: like, after this wonderful woman who never mentioned a child ever did all of these incredible things, she found happiness with a baby. And I'm like, I can't stand those books. I cannot. We will talk one day. We will like have like a full breakdown.
[00:09:34] Kellie: I I love it. I love it.
[00:09:36] Maggie: I kid you not, I was reading a book that was, it was a war spy movie related book, or not movie, like spy story book.
[00:09:46] Children was never mentioned. And in the epilogue, it was like, and she had like three kids. And I was like, why? Why did that need to be put in here? She helped you win the war. Like, we think she's awesome. Like, why do you have to be [00:10:00] like, and then she became a mother and was fulfilled? Was
[00:10:01] Kellie: it a historic novel?
[00:10:03] Was it one that I've read?
[00:10:05] Maggie: I don't know.
[00:10:06] Kellie: Does the author's name rhyme with Tristan Manna?
[00:10:10] Maggie: No. Oh! But okay,
[00:10:13] Kellie: I was trying to remember the epilogue of, of one of my favorite books. That was, it was a war story.
[00:10:20] Maggie: Oh no, I love historical fiction and right now I'm reading historical fiction from like World War I era stuff based in Europe because now that I'm living over here, I realized.
[00:10:30] The American education system taught me jack crap about World War I. I don't know anything about it. And it actually like shaped a lot of the countries and the political scene that we have today came from like the late 1800s and early, you know, early 1900s. I don't know these things. My friend who's Austrian, she was like, didn't you know that both world wars started in Austria?
[00:10:54] And I was like, no,
[00:10:55] Kellie: no,
[00:10:56] Maggie: all that. All I know
[00:10:57] Kellie: is America.
[00:10:59] Maggie: Yeah. ' [00:11:00] Mericka . ' Mericka. She, she asked me, she's like, what did you learn about World War II? And I was like, that America came in and saved the day and saved
[00:11:07] Kellie: the world. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:11:09] It is. It is pretty, it is pretty dismal when we think about it.
[00:11:13] Maggie: Oh, like what we're taught. It's yeah, it's insane. Yeah, it's insane. Yep. But one of the things, a great segue into our main topic of the day. So again, content warning, we are talking all things, pregnancy, including being pregnant and pregnancy loss.
[00:11:29] I'm terrified of being pregnant. And one of the things that I've noticed in understanding that there's a term called tokophobia and I'll get it. I didn't even know that was a term. I didn't know until probably a couple of years ago, and When, so I've got, I was going to pull some stuff from the subreddit there, but I'm just going to summarize one of the things that I notice in just the childfree space of people who are terrified of being pregnant.
[00:11:57] One thing is there's a [00:12:00] dramatic misunderstanding of how pregnancy happens, like how babies are made. Mm hmm. Oh, for sure. And like how, not only how they're made, but like how they grow, how they're birthed. Is that a word? Birth?
[00:12:15] Kellie: Yes, yes. You know, all of it. But I mean, that goes, that goes hand in hand too, with what you were just saying about the American education system too, you know, especially with how, with how things are shifting to where, like in some states it is becoming taboo to even discuss this.
[00:12:32] Why would we discuss this and educate kids on how their bodies work? That's bad. That's shameful.
[00:12:39] Maggie: Yeah.
[00:12:39] Kellie: Like it's terrible, but. Yeah. I'm sorry. I digress.
[00:12:43] Maggie: No, no, no. I think this is a great place to start. So take like, like, tell me what your overview of sex ed looked like. Did you have it in school? And if not, did your parents give you the talk?
[00:12:55] What was your general understanding?
[00:12:57] Kellie: My parents did not give me [00:13:00] the talk, but I, from, I think they gave my sister the talk and my brother, I don't know. I don't know. We never talked about it, but I will give my community school system that I, that I went to, I had one hell of an excellent public education and I had.
[00:13:18] I think it was like 7th and 8th grade, 6th, 7th, 8th grade, we, they started in like 4th grade because girls were going to start getting their periods and, you know, that's when they had us separated because they knew that the little boys, like, a 4th grade boy is not going to, you know, Take very kindly to learning what is about to happen to their cohorts that are female
[00:13:41] Maggie: there They're so they're gonna be unserious about the whole thing,
[00:13:44] Kellie: right?
[00:13:44] Right and I remember I mean I have an older sister and my mom and I understood that what was going to happen, but I will say that our sex ed was very good and I It may have instilled a fear of childbirth in me and [00:14:00] pregnancy because we saw the miracle of life and if you haven't seen that movie, You haven't seen it, you know what I'm talking about, right?
[00:14:08] I don't know. Like, it ends with a live birth. Like, that is the Does this movie
[00:14:13] Maggie: start with like, It's an
[00:14:15] Kellie: educational movie. Like the semen,
[00:14:17] like it follows semen into
[00:14:19] I
[00:14:20] Maggie: don't know.
[00:14:20] Kellie: Maggie, I, I don't know. You know why? The only thing I remember is like, I was like, it gets that big? No. It gets bigger? Stop it, stop it.
[00:14:29] Duh! That's what I remember. And I remember I opted out of this episode because of the content. Oh, Nope. You started it. Like with my experience and we'll get into that in a bit, but my older sister is a certified nurse midwife. So, any time I had questions about, you know, when my husband and I tried to have kids, like, or tried to get pregnant.
[00:14:50] He didn't try to get pregnant. I did. Let's also be clear on that. Yeah, for sure. Okay. We are not pregnant.
[00:14:57] Maggie: No, no. I hate [00:15:00] that so much. Like men take enough credit for what women do. Like let's, let's not do this one too.
[00:15:05] Kellie: That, you know, I never taught, I never thought of it that way that it was a man taking credit for what his wife is.
[00:15:10] His wife is baking a human being. Like I'm as As scared as I am of this entire process, mad props to people who do this.
[00:15:21] Maggie: Oh, for sure. Because I am so averse to it. It would be like, we'd touch it with a tenfold pole. And we'll talk about that. Well,
[00:15:27] Kellie: well, I have tried and failed. No, we can laugh about it. I'm sorry.
[00:15:32] I'm like multiple
[00:15:32] Maggie: levels, like, like emotionally sorry for the trauma. And then also like,
[00:15:37] Kellie: Oh, sorry. Sorry that you even thought that was a good idea to begin with. I know. Oh my God. Well, you know, hormones, new marriage, it happens. It's okay.
[00:15:47] Maggie: Okay. But, okay. Let's, let's, let's roll the tape back for just a second.
[00:15:51] This conversation is coming at a really wonderful time because I just turned 38, like two months ago.
[00:15:56] Kellie: A month ago. No, it was a month ago. It was a month ago. [00:16:00] Public education. Seven, seven years ago I turned.
[00:16:03] Maggie: Seven years ago, I turned 12. No. So I just turned 38. I'm in a loving, committed forever partnership.
[00:16:11] And one of the things that a lot of people say is you'll change your mind when you get older about being childfree. And I knew definitively at 20, because that's when I first asked to get sterilized. And I was literally laughed at by my. GYN and horrible, but my parents say that
[00:16:29] I've been pretty clear about it. Like my whole life. And even with. Even with my last relationship, when we first met and you have those conversations of like, how many kids do you want to have? I was like zero and maybe possibly I could adopt one. Right. If I ever got there. And like, you can see my face for those that are like watching, like.
[00:16:52] I was never really like fully into that idea. That was still more of like the, you know, how can I save, save people? How [00:17:00] can I support people be a better human? I, it was never to be a mom. It was always just to like get kids out of the foster system because the U S foster system is so effed up. So that was my thing.
[00:17:10] It was never like, I never even thought about adopting a baby. Like it was like adopt an eight year old, you know, and get the kid out of, out of foster.
[00:17:18] Kellie: Yeah,
[00:17:19] Maggie: so I have that's kind of the whole background I have had in the last month. I have had Three dreams where I was pregnant. Okay? Most people would say, oh, see, this is the clicking, clicking tok.
[00:17:35] Mm-Hmm.
[00:17:36] Kellie: What am I trying to say? It's the wine talking. It is the wine talking.
[00:17:40] Maggie: What am I trying to say? This is. Clock ticking. The clicking. Oh my God.
[00:17:46] Kellie: I love it. I need to go get some wine.
[00:17:49] This is how much I don't
[00:17:50] Maggie: believe in the, in the clock ticking. I'm calling it the clicking tok.
[00:17:54] Kellie: This is how much
[00:17:54] Maggie: I don't believe in the clock ticking because in each of these three dreams, [00:18:00] Panicked.
[00:18:00] Yes. Freaked out. And began the termination process.
[00:18:05] Kellie: Right.
[00:18:06] Maggie: In my dream. Like, I am so childfree that in my dreams, I'm like, okay. I know how to fix that. Let's go to the clinic, right? And when I woke up, you know, how we do, we look over at our partner. If our partner hurts our feelings or does something silly in our dreams, we're like, why did you do this?
[00:18:24] Right.
[00:18:25] Kellie: So
[00:18:25] Maggie: mad. So I like look over at my partner and I was like, dude, and he's like, Maggie. So I have an IUD. Yes. I'm on my like third one. He has a vasectomy, like the chances are low. So add on to those three dreams. I didn't tell you this Kellie, two days ago I woke up and for one whole hour straight, my face is a faucet.
[00:18:53] I am dripping sweat. And like, we're joking, like, is it perimenopause feels a little [00:19:00] early for perimenopause in my opinion, but maybe it isn't, I wasn't overly hot. It was actually a cool day. I just couldn't stop sweating. But it was one of those things where it was like, my hormones are so out of whack, I'm getting a pregnancy test tomorrow.
[00:19:15] Kellie: Like, I've never met somebody who is so, like, it would be like a same sex couple always checking for pregnancy. I know. I know.
[00:19:28] Maggie: I know. I've literally taken a pregnancy test when I have not had sex in a month.
[00:19:34] Kellie: Yeah.
[00:19:34] Maggie: Just to be like, I mean,
[00:19:36] Kellie: I mean, you know, we grew up in the United States where immaculate conception really happened.
[00:19:43] I mean, this is fair.
[00:19:44] Maggie: This is fair. Like, I
[00:19:46] Kellie: was so, I used to be so terrified as a kid. I was like, so like, you really can just end up pregnant. So, I mean, that, that like, Oh, like that's a whole other story about how religion [00:20:00] ruins children and their perceptions of that.
[00:20:02] Maggie: Oh, like don't sit on public toilets because you could get pregnant.
[00:20:06] Kellie: Yep. Or my, my grandma used to say, Oh, I'd use the same soap as your grandpa and I'd, I'd be pregnant. She didn't have that accent, but, or, or your, your grandpa would hang his pants up and I'd be pregnant. I'm like, that really happens? Yeah. So yeah, but don't worry. Don't worry. Goshen community schools changed all my perceptions of that, that, that reality.
[00:20:27] So
[00:20:28] Maggie: I think that's the wild part. So what really ruined me is That series, that TV series, I Didn't Know I Was Pregnant. Oh, no! It's the worst the thing is, is I've never watched a full episode. Yeah. The fact that there were seasons of this show, I don't even have to watch it to know.
[00:20:48] It is possible for people to just like, Oh, shoot. I'm six months along. Like, I'm a, I'm a heavier person. My weight is in my stomach. Like, I don't know these. [00:21:00] So, yeah. So, paranoid. What I'm
[00:21:01] Kellie: cracking up about with that is Kathy Griffith did a really good stand up on that. And she's like, Have you guys ever watched the show?
[00:21:09] I didn't know I was pregnant. I mean, like, her whole shtick used to be like, Covering reality TV. So she was talking about, I didn't know I was pregnant. And she's like, she's like, so I called my doctor and I was like, I haven't had a period in like three months. And then every time she'd be like, I didn't know I was pregnant.
[00:21:27] I was, I was starting to gain weight in the middle section, like the shape of a watermelon. I didn't know I was pregnant. Oh my God. I know it's amazing,
[00:21:37] Maggie: it's
[00:21:37] Kellie: she's another childfree queen. So yes, it's
[00:21:41] Maggie: ridiculous that like as educated of a person as I am like I realistically know that I am not pregnant.
[00:21:48] The chances are so freaking low. But I am also paranoid. Like,
[00:21:55] Kellie: right, there
[00:21:55] Maggie: was a time in my life where I bought Pregnancy tests in bulk, the [00:22:00] ones that are just like the dipstick that you can get, like, they almost look like they're not like the full things that you pee on, you have to be right. It's just the
[00:22:07] Kellie: stick.
[00:22:08] It's just, yeah, just the little test strip.
[00:22:10] Maggie: Yeah. It's just a test strip. Exactly. It's almost like a COVID test and
[00:22:14] Kellie: like, I would test
[00:22:16] Maggie: to satisfy it, just pee on your COVID. I would buy. Yeah. I mean, for, I mean, at this point, like, I just, Yeah, it was, I'm terrified. I'm absolutely terrified. Like, if my partner didn't have a vasectomy, I would be even more terrified.
[00:22:32] Like, it's just, it's just insane. So, this is kind of setting it up. This is, being pregnant is one of my top three reasons of not ever considering to have kids.
[00:22:44] One of my friends tried to wrestle me while she was pregnant. So I would touch her pregnant belly because I effing refuse, like refuse. I've never touched one. I refuse to touch one. It grosses me out. I've never been pregnant and you have, so share a little bit about [00:23:00] like, How you thought about pregnancy prior to getting pregnant and then kind of where you are now that you have That you aren't pregnant.
[00:23:07] I don't know how to say it.
[00:23:08] Kellie: Now you have me paranoid because I am neither on an IUD nor is my husband, nor does my husband have a vasectomy. So I'm not
[00:23:17] Maggie: using contract. No, wait.
[00:23:19] Kellie: No, none. Dude, I am so unfertile that I'm sure that this is, yeah, of course I'm going to say that, knock on wood, because I am at the age where my ovaries are rapid firing just to get rid of the supply that's left.
[00:23:34] So, yeah, but no, so my perception of pregnancy was always,
[00:23:40] Maggie: panicking for you.
[00:23:41] Kellie: Yeah, my fear was always that I would die during pregnancy and I know several other women that shared shared this fear They have not had children that I know of they haven't been pregnant but you know and the reality of it is is we don't have the best track record for fetal and maternal health in our country and [00:24:00] I mean, when my husband and I decided to have kids I was excited but reluctant and scared because I still had that fear in the back of my head.
[00:24:10] Maggie: Yeah.
[00:24:10] Kellie: Well, turns out my fears were not unfounded. I had two ectopic pregnancies and with, I think with the climate that our country is in Yeah. That alone is scary enough to warrant never like If I were still that age, I probably wouldn't even consider. Trying to have a child because you know, you hear about the women in certain states who they show up to the hospital they know that something's wrong.
[00:24:40] It's been determined. It's ectopic and they're sent home Because the doctors are too afraid to treat it because they're afraid that they'll be held liable, lose their license get thrown into jail, whatever, like, who knows all this crazy ass sh*t.
[00:24:56] When I was pregnant both times, it was [00:25:00] immediate. It was as soon as it was identified, the the first time I had a shot of methotrexate. And basically, so we were trying to preserve my fertility the second time it was in the same tube, and I had no, like, Reasons for them to suspect that I would have been at higher risk for an ectopic pregnancy other than just bad luck, evidently, like no prior risk, and it's, it's so when people say, oh, it's very unlikely that this complication will happen to you.
[00:25:30] I'm like, hold up. It was very unlikely that I would have an ectopic pregnancy to begin with, and I had two, so it was unlikely I'd have the first. It was very unlikely I'd have the second. It was more likely because I'd had one, but still very small percentage of the population. But here's the scary thing, like you know statistics, like you hear statistics.
[00:25:53] But when you go through something and you're public about it, like I shared my experience because I knew that there were other women that had been through [00:26:00] something like this and it'd been quiet. So many of my friends came out and said, I had that same thing happened to me and I didn't know why I was ashamed.
[00:26:10] Like I felt I was embarrassed. I even had Someone asked me and then this is the other the other reason why it's so scary right now And I mean like add to your to your fear of pregnancy the fear of not being able to get Appropriate health care to save your life. Yeah in a timely manner. Yeah, I had One, one of my friends, who I thought I was close to, asked me one night what it felt like to have an abortion.
[00:26:39] Maggie: Oh my gosh. And I'm
[00:26:41] Kellie: like, girl, I had a life saving procedure. And just so we're all clear on terminology, if you are having a suspected miscarriage, On your medical record, it will say suspected abortion. An abortion is just a termination of a pregnancy, whether it's by biology, [00:27:00] by a drug, by medical procedure.
[00:27:04] Like, it's all the same. And so that's part of, like, criminalizing women having miscarriages. I mean, that in and of itself is terrifying. Like, it's absolutely. And I. I don't want to add to people's fear of this because, you know, somebody really wants to have a baby. Like, I
[00:27:23] Maggie: mean, like fine, but I think that we need to recognize, especially those of us who are voting members of any of our, any country, the U S in particular, we have a big one coming up, but I mean, this is a topic in many, many, many, if not all, I don't know the answer to that question, but so many different places of.
[00:27:44] You know, is abortion health care and what does it mean and all of these things. And I think that my, my whole thing about living Unapologetically Childfree is normalizing what it's like to be a person who doesn't have and won't have [00:28:00] kids. However, you got there, right? You and I came to this place in very different ways, and we are enjoying the heck out of our lives being childfree.
[00:28:08] But I think that, and this is a different conversation, but it goes into what you were saying about knowledge, which is, I think childfree people spend a lot more time, on average, deciding whether or not they'll have kids than people who do have kids. I think there's so much more of an expectation of that's just what you do.
[00:28:26] And so the more conversations that we have of like, this is what, this is what healthcare in Alabama looks like. This is what women's healthcare in Mississippi. Looks like
[00:28:38] Kellie: you have to take that into, into consideration, especially when you're, when you're thinking about this, because it's your own life.
[00:28:45] And that, comes back to, I think that the fear of being pregnant and I'm, I'm just talking about like the fear for your own life. There's other fears too of like, I, think that I would personally panic if I felt a baby kick because it would feel like an [00:29:00] alien inside of me.
[00:29:01] You can be very different places and still have this fear and it's very legitimate and very real. We all know somebody that's had a trauma birth story or a trauma pregnancy story.
[00:29:16] Maggie: Yes. Well, okay. So this is, I wasn't going to talk about it, but now you brought it up. So I don't know about you, One of the things that happens to me as a very I mean, like, loud, unapologetic, childfree, forever like person is, I have had more than a handful of mothers describe in detail their traumatic birth story.
[00:29:47] Why? I don't know. I think, okay, so honestly, my assumption based off of the conversation, is it some way for them to relate to, you know, the, I don't blame you for not wanting to have [00:30:00] kids because this is what it was like for me. And then they go through, they're like, I pushed for 36 hours and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:30:06] I lost 17 liters of blood. And, you know, all, I don't, I don't think that's. Literally possible, but you know what I mean, they go through all of these things and they talk about, what is it called? An appeasement, apesiatomy or whatever. Yeah,
[00:30:19] Kellie: to me.
[00:30:19] Maggie: Yeah. You know, they go through those things and they just talk about it.
[00:30:22] And I think it's a way to relate and, and you and I've talked about this before, whether it was on the pod or just together of like, sometimes. And in my experience, more often than not, when a woman becomes a mother, Everything gets filtered through being a mother. So her attempt to relate to me woman to woman was from the viewpoint of a mother instead of being like, girl, I get it.
[00:30:48] I get the fear of healthcare. I get the fear of, it's weird in your body. It's like, Oh no, I almost died three times. So I totally understand not wanting to be pregnant. [00:31:00] It's like, I don't need that. I've already made up my mind, but yeah, I had
[00:31:03] Kellie: that. I had that fear well before I was like facing my own mortality with an ectopic pregnancy and being like, Yeah. That's not a difficult decision to make. So I hear people, like with this, the pro life rhetoric, or people going to pro life rallies and saying, well, what about ectopic pregnancies?
[00:31:20] And then the first person who says, well, I don't know, I think that that's a scapegoat argument. And usually it's men. However, there's another group , who I think are as bad as men who just aren't educated and it's women who have never had a trauma story related to pregnancy or birth they're usually very religious and I'm not vilifying religion here.
[00:31:41] The person that asked me what it was like to have an abortion. She's one of those . I think that there were some traumas then later on in life in regards to loss or something and The tone has kind of changed.
[00:31:55] I'm probably going to out this person by saying this, but that's, they were in the [00:32:00] wrong. So this particular person is a lot less vocal about their pro life stance and about villainizing people who have to make that decision.
[00:32:09] With things like Roe V Wade being overturned in the United States. The childfree community, that doesn't understand the implications that that has on your own lifestyle choice.
[00:32:22] Maggie: Yes. So I think, Oh my gosh,
[00:32:23] so when the overturning came out, I had my business Unapologetically Childfree at the time I had my monthly membership that's now archived. And so I was doing promotion and I talked about that. I said we know the vast majority of.
[00:32:39] Abortions are not wanted. The vast majority of abortions are to save a woman's life or are considered abortions when the fetus has already died. Right. Or, the fetus would not survive outside of a woman's [00:33:00] body for more than, you know, a very, very short window. And it is more humane to terminate the pregnancy than to bring in a child who is only going to suffer tremendously for hours or days and those kinds of things.
[00:33:12] Right. Right. We know, statistics show us, stats show us, we're fully aware that the vast majority of abortions are not simply, I'm healthy. The fetus is healthy. I don't want to be pregnant. We know that is the tiniest portion of abortion. And those
[00:33:30] Kellie: abortions
[00:33:31] Maggie: aren't
[00:33:31] Kellie: happening where there is a fully developed kicking fetus in the womb.
[00:33:37] It is a cluster of cells. Yes. Those abortions are happening probably before most women would even know they were pregnant. Yeah.
[00:33:45] Maggie: Hopefully. And if not, it's like right at that line. As soon as you know you're pregnant, you're at that four to six week line. Yeah. And.
[00:33:52] Kellie: You more like seven to eight weeks, which to me having a six week ban, most women don't know.
[00:33:59] I only [00:34:00] knew at like six weeks because we were trying.
[00:34:03] Maggie: Okay.
[00:34:04] Kellie: And my pregnancies, my latest pregnancy was seven weeks before I had to have me
[00:34:09] Maggie: out. I'm not going to lie. Like the seven days, it's
[00:34:11] Kellie: still, I mean, it still is. cells. Cluster of cells. It's still, like, rapidly dividing. That's why, like, I mean, if you want medically, it's why I was able to have methotrexate because it's a cancer drug that targets the most rapidly growing cells in your body.
[00:34:26] And when you're pregnant, happens
[00:34:29] Maggie: the same
[00:34:29] Kellie: way .
[00:34:29] Maggie: Yeah.
[00:34:29] Kellie: Yeah. It's
[00:34:31] Maggie: so like, it still freaks me out. Like we need better education. More people need to understand the reproductive system. Because seven to eight weeks, that feels long.
[00:34:42] Kellie: Oh, it's not at all. It's not at all. And when, because when they,
[00:34:46] Maggie: I'm just like, oh God. You're, you're like, you're like, this is so gross. I know. I know. It's scary. That's, it's scary. It's terrifying.
[00:34:54] Kellie: It's terrifying.
[00:34:55] Maggie: Especially, especially because there are things like [00:35:00] religion that whether or not someone is a practicing, insert religion here, person, there's so much stigma around a termination that is purely choice.
[00:35:12] So going back to like living as a childfree person, choosing. Like I said, if I were like, where are all the woods to knock on? Like if I were currently pregnant, hold God. ,
[00:35:23] Kellie: I'll knock on some wood for you. Jesus. I can't even say it. Okay.
[00:35:26] Maggie: So if that were true, I would immediately be seeking out termination and that would, that would be one of the very small percentages of terminations, of abortions.
[00:35:36] That would be, I'm healthy, cluster of cells is healthy, whatever, and. I'm terminating due to choice. I do think because we need to talk about abortion as health care in order to get people who are quote unquote pro life to understand what the implications are. I think it's also important to just say that there are so many people who have just [00:36:00] the holy crap, accidental.
[00:36:03] I know people who say, This was an unplanned one, but we love her anyway. Like that's, that's so problematic. That's so problematic! Like, don't say that.
[00:36:13] It's like, it's not accidental. You know how that happened. You know how that happens. And for some people in some places you have a choice. There's a woman on Tik TOK and I wish I knew her name. She's telling her story right now, which I think is really, really brave. And she's childfree.
[00:36:31] She was in this interim between ending her birth control. And her husband was about to get a vasectomy and she was about to get sterilized. They got pregnant. Oh boy. So she is documenting her abortion story on TikTok to talk about how abortion is healthcare.
[00:36:49] And so many people are saying all of these horrible things about, you know, how pregnancy works, you know, how people get pregnant, all of this stuff. And yes, she does. Yes. She's an adult. And [00:37:00] I'm thinking about how she is so fortunate to have this ability to make that choice to not be pregnant, but it makes me think about the people who don't have that choice because someone makes it for them.
[00:37:12] They are young, you know, they're a minor or they are in a marriage where they don't have control of their finances. Or they're in a state or a country that does not allow for it. And so the choice that I have this massive privilege, and you have this massive privilege to make to say, I'm not going to be a mother, to a human, at any point in my future.
[00:37:37] And I think when we talk about fear of pregnancy, you were talking about the, infant mortality, the maternal mortality, even just talking about how traumatic the medical process can be. We know how women's health care is so under researched and just under trusted by our [00:38:00] medical community that I think it makes so much sense.
[00:38:04] Maybe because I am, you know, fully terrified of it, but I think it makes sense to be afraid of it. And I think it makes sense that if we talked more about these issues, that people who wanted to be pregnant, when they want to have a kid, they can go in knowing the risks voting so that they can reduce those risks advocating for better education and all of those things, because.
[00:38:27] People should not talk to you that way. They should not ask you, how did it feel to have an abortion? People should not even A grown
[00:38:33] Kellie: woman who's had children, like It's awful.
[00:38:38] Maggie: The shaming that goes along with it. And, and I talk about mom on mom crime a lot because there's such infighting within the mom world that even, and we know this from friends that we have that had children of like having an epidural or not having a home birth, having a doula, having a this, like, you know, [00:39:00] breastfeeding versus formula.
[00:39:00] How long do you breastfeed? Yeah. Are you using organic cotton onesies, you know? As opposed
[00:39:08] Kellie: to doing what's right for you and making that decision. It's just like, yeah, It's really interesting that the quote unquote pro life movement, and I say, quote unquote, because I don't think that it's pro life whatsoever.
[00:39:21] No, I think it's pro birth. Anti woman. All they've done is taken away one choice. You still are given, you're still allowed the other choice to have the, but, but then they, they, you know, they don't even consider the situations that they're putting women, that they're forcing women into.
[00:39:38] Maggie: Yeah. I mean, I just think about like you and you can correct me if I'm inaccurate, given the, the fact that you were in a loving, committed relationship, you and your partner had jobs that gave you healthcare in the United States.
[00:39:59] So insurance in the [00:40:00] United States and were solidly middle class is that fair?.
[00:40:03] And how scary that still was for you, how hard that was to get the care that you needed to being in a state where you were able to have care, less than a three hour drive, like some people, five hour drive. The fact that like, even with all of those advantages.
[00:40:24] The trauma that comes from, in your case, this cluster of cells implanting in the wrong place just by happenstance, which happens a lot more often than anybody ever wants to talk about. It does. That's terrifying that you had, I would say a lot of other luck, you know, lucky things, privileges afforded you.
[00:40:49] And then this shit thing happens. Right. Right. You were faced with such trauma. And we talked about it in the last episode of just like how in the depths of things. You [00:41:00] were because of how horrible that was like I would not wish That on my worst enemy that just sounds Awful.
[00:41:08] Kellie: No, I had all of the support that I could have asked for and it was I felt this big I felt this big and it was terrifying.
[00:41:16] Even though, I had my husband, the second time around, we lived across the country from my family. So I didn't have my family, like physical support. My mom and sister were on a plane to get out here when I had emergency surgery, but I felt, I felt more isolated and more alone because it was one of those things, like the shame too, that comes.
[00:41:37] associated with anything pregnancy related, whether, and, and yeah, that there is shame and guilt in choosing your own life. Because it's been instilled in us in society that somehow I'm doing something wrong, which is bullsh*t. You had talked earlier about, people saying, well, as you get older, you'll, you'll want kids.
[00:41:58] Maggie: Yeah.
[00:41:58] Kellie: And [00:42:00] so I had someone tell me the opposite years ago and they said, she knew what I had gone through. And she said, if it gives you any consolation as you get older, that drive,
[00:42:12] and she said, I had the drive, and I didn't want kids though, but I had that biological drive and she's like, it was very confusing. But she said it does go away. She said, everyone's going to tell you the opposite that you're going to, as you get older, you're going to want kids.
[00:42:27] You're going to regret not having them. And she's like, to be honest with you, I had a certain age and the drive to be pregnant it will drop off and you will not regret a damn thing.
[00:42:38] Maggie: I did a thought about this before you joined as co host where the origin of the biological clock like that term was invented by a male journalist. Not the medical community
[00:42:48] Kellie: to
[00:42:50] Maggie: make women feel really old. Basically it was around the time of women's lib and women were starting to go to work and talking about how they can have it all.[00:43:00]
[00:43:00] And the, and it was talking about how this like, yeah, you can go out and you can work, but you're going to miss out. You're going to miss out. I remember seeing this.
[00:43:07] Kellie: I saw that. Yep.
[00:43:10] Maggie: And now there is something to the effect of like, okay. When you are born as a, when you are an ovary owner and you are born, all of your eggs will be in your ovaries and the minute that you were born, like the second they're, they're dying, they're dying, they're dying, they're dying.
[00:43:28] So by the time you're even at puberty, you've lost like half. So that's the quote unquote biological clock is that every single cell in your body starts to die as soon as you're born. Yeah. And so there is a clock in that sense, but this, there, so much of that, like pressure to reproduce is so much more societal than it is biological, because yes, there is a desire on some level to like procreate, but only when the herd needs to get [00:44:00] bigger Right.
[00:44:01] We are at almost, what, almost 9 billion people in this world? Our herd does not need to get bigger. It's really weird
[00:44:09] Kellie: how when you, when you dig deep into the drives society puts on people. So, so even the abortion, the whole idea of abortion being somehow a bad thing, that's a relatively new concept. Yeah.
[00:44:25] That abortion is a bad thing and it's politically driven. It's absolutely politically driven. Politically and religiously. And it's, it's really funny that when you start diving into, the reasons that, that groups of people have like, They're terrified they're not going to be able to populate their military.
[00:44:44] Yes. They're terrified, we're not going to have enough people to work to keep people in their billionaire status. Bullsh*t! I've had people. My existence is not to, is not to populate a military machine and it's not to get somebody else super rich.
[00:44:59] Maggie: [00:45:00] Yeah, we've seen articles that talk about this childfree quote unquote movement, which is not a movement.
[00:45:05] Women have been choosing not to have kids for eons.
[00:45:07] Kellie: We all started out as childfree. We all, we all started out as childless.
[00:45:13] Maggie: We all started as not having kids. I can agree with you on that. I can agree
[00:45:17] Kellie: with you on
[00:45:18] Maggie: that. But.
[00:45:19] Kellie: It's a decision to have a child.
[00:45:21] Maggie: Yes. We all have the option to have a child.
[00:45:25] And I think that, you know, so many people are saying like, The aging population is going to be bigger. Then the younger population. So the younger population isn't going to be putting in enough money to support the aging population. I'm like, that's not my effing job. It is not my job to risk my life, risk my body to put another human being onto this planet who would have the, the higher likelihood for mental and physical illness, given my genetics and this fricking world that we live in.
[00:45:56] And just so that There's more money for [00:46:00] the boomers who didn't give a crap about me when they made their choices? That's a whole nother pod and we will talk about that. Absolutely not. Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. I'm not doing this. All right. Talkophobia, it is a severe and significant fear of childbirth.
[00:46:19] And I would not necessarily say that I have tokophobia, but probably someone would, given the fact that like that I refuse to touch a pregnant belly. And I think that it's a parasite inside of a human. Probably not the best person. I think it is. I think it, I think medically, if you read the term of what a parasite is, yes, it is.
[00:46:37] Like that's part of the reason why. Anyway,
[00:46:39] Kellie: it is not a
[00:46:40] Maggie: Symbiotic
[00:46:41] Kellie: relationship.
[00:46:42] Maggie: It isn't symbiotic.
[00:46:42] Kellie: No, it's not only one being benefits hmmhmm
[00:46:48] Maggie: I want to benefit me. Thank you. So Selfish! All right. So let's just take a moment here and Just let the whole world know that you [00:47:00] and I are not alone in our experiences, that this is not something that is just like Kellie and Maggie specific, and that we were kind of making mountains out of molehills.
[00:47:09] So I'm going to just read a couple of stories from a subreddit that is not childfree. The question is "anyone else with severe pregnancy phobia?"
[00:47:23] "When I say pregnancy phobia, it's not like I'm a little grossed out by pregnancy and stuff. It terrifies me. I mean, no disrespect to pregnant people, by the way, it must be really difficult to carry a baby for nine months. And I fully have. Respect for them. Kellie and I both agree when I did sex ed, I had to do a leaflet on eating healthy during pregnancy and I rarely cry, but I was sobbing into my desk because I was, it was a terrifying concept.
[00:47:47] I'd rather die than be pregnant, honestly. And I don't know why it's the grossest idea for me. I think part. Part of it stems from trauma, but it makes me feel physically sick when I think about pregnancy or anything to do with [00:48:00] it. Does anyone have a similar experience or any advice on overcoming this stupid effing phobia?"
[00:48:05] What is the first thing that like jumps out at you at this question?
[00:48:09] Kellie: That this isn't a kind of phobia that, That benefits you to try to overcome unless you want children. Yeah.
[00:48:16] Maggie: And that was a lot of the responses was like, you don't need to even like worry about it if you choose to not have children because that's the, that's the best way to avoid it.
[00:48:27] As a mental health provider, this, the thing that came to me was I'd rather die than be pregnant. Yeah. And. You and I were talking earlier about people who do not have the privilege of abortion as health care and how many women will take their life or how many women will want to or will continue to want to take their life after they give birth because they never wanted to be a parent or they didn't want to be a parent now.
[00:48:55] Now was not the time because of money or because being in an [00:49:00] abusive relationship or because of just all kinds of circumstances of just, I'm not ready. I don't want one, that kind of thing. Right. So that's scary to me because although I don't know the stats on like how common that is, I know that if one person is saying it, it's a lot more right.
[00:49:17] Right. 100%. Yeah. And. The thing I also saw in this this thread and I'll read a couple of them is that people were really relating to it which is why I think that this conversation is so important because we see Pregnancy is very glorified and you and I both know we have people in our lives who have had children When you talk to a pregnant woman They're rarely glorifying it.
[00:49:39] They're most of the time being like, I want this baby out of me. I'm ready to hold my baby. I want my baby out of my body. Like I can't handle it anymore.
[00:49:47] Kellie: Right. I want it to
[00:49:48] Maggie: be over. Yeah. I want the pregnancy process to be over.
[00:49:51] Kellie: Yes.
[00:49:52] Maggie: Yes. There was one person who said." I have something similar to this. It stems from knowing the high [00:50:00] maternal mortality rates in the U. S. and knowing and seeing pregnant women suffering pregnancy related complications like preeclampsia and PPD."
[00:50:08] And I think They minimize it. So those women who told me their horrible pregnancy stories of how they were in labor for like four days or whatever, and they almost die, and they say, absolutely worth it. I'd do it again. And I'm like, what? And I think that that's a thing where we're just trying to normalize it and say, it's fine that our healthcare is that crappy, you know?
[00:50:30] Yeah. Yeah. Now this one is interesting because this one is from a parent. She says. "That she also has a fear of being pregnant and she says, but in a different sense. I had two pregnancies back to back and ended up with a near two year long stent of postpartum psychosis.
[00:50:48] I'm terrified of becoming pregnant again because I know just how bad I can lose my mind." I think that's something that we also need to address. Like when we think about abortion as healthcare, or we think about the choice to be childfree, there's [00:51:00] also the choice to be one and done. Or be two and done.
[00:51:03] And not continue and want to seek out sterilization or something like that. Or an accidental, you know, conception that I want to terminate because This woman had two years of postpartum psychosis. That sounds miserable, right? And the fact that we're just saying, like, deal with it, it's a miracle of birth.
[00:51:25] Like, that's just dumb.
[00:51:26] And she goes, "edited to add, I would obsessively state that I would rather be d3ad than be pregnant or have a kid again To the point that those closest to me are certainly sick of hearing it" Wow Like I think this thing that we're talking about is so common and we don't mention it because it feels It almost feels like we're going against women by saying I don't want to be pregnant.
[00:51:52] And it is not anti woman to say, I want to be childfree.
[00:51:55] What's anti
[00:51:56] Kellie: woman is for you to put [00:52:00] your feelings of pregnancy onto someone else's decision. That's anti woman. It's anti woman to say, "I think abortion is murder. So nobody should be allowed to have an abortion." "I don't see it as, as healthcare." Oh, okay. Good. Good for you. Good for you. Then don't have one.
[00:52:17] Yeah. Then don't have one. Yep.
[00:52:19] Maggie: The man who can't have one anyway, but whatever. Oh, you don't,
[00:52:23] Kellie: if you don't have a uterus, honey, you don't have, a horse in this race. Yeah.
[00:52:28] Maggie: Oh, I sure do love having a co host. I'm so happy that you are here. And I think welcome. Okay, so as we end, I want to take a moment for those of you who are as equally terrified of being pregnant and have never been pregnant, just like myself.
[00:52:43] If you're sitting back and you're listening and you also have this kind of like, what would I do if I became pregnant? Take a pregnancy test. I fully am here to support. I wish I had like an affiliate link to like clear blue or something. Don't say
[00:52:58] Kellie: their name unless they're [00:53:00] willing to sponsor our show.
[00:53:01] Maggie: That's fair. But If you are as terrified to be pregnant, there is nothing wrong with taking a pregnancy test every month because that's seven to eight weeks that Kellie was talking about terrifies me, especially with six week bans and all of that kind of stuff. If you are sexually active, this is not a medical advice.
[00:53:17] This is just coming from one terrified child, three person to another, just for peace of mind, for peace of mind, pregnancy test every month. I have an IUD, so I haven't had a flow since 2016, so I can't use that as like a judge of anything. And prior to that, I was very irregular with my flow, which is why I was taking pregnancy tests.
[00:53:38] So, please, if you needed permission, which you don't, but if you needed it I'm giving you permission to just buy up all of the stock of the, you know, the cheap stuff that you can get in bulk. Yep. From the online retailers that we don't really want to give our money to, but sometimes we just do. Don't feel bad about it. And you don't have to hide it and you don't have to feel like it's weird [00:54:00] because honestly, I think it's weirder to have a hand sticking out of your belly than peeing on a stick .
[00:54:05] Kellie: So bravo, go get your bulk pregnancy test. Yes. I, I've taken a fair share of my life, but yes.
[00:54:13] Yes. So I'm with you on that.
[00:54:15] Maggie: You know what? Tag me in the photo of your false pregnancy test @ childfree_communities I want this. This needs to be like a thing. I am here for it. I love my wine. That makes me think this is a great idea. I love
[00:54:28] Kellie: it. I think that's a great idea. Yeah. Tag, tag Maggie in your pregnancy test photos.
[00:54:34] Yeah, for sure. I
[00:54:35] Maggie: will do it. I, I will take my test tomorrow because
[00:54:39] Kellie: Maggie has a cabinet full of them. And I'm going to say, if you happen to be in Portugal and you need one, you know, where to go, you
[00:54:47] Maggie: know, where to go. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love this idea. All right. Miss Kellie. What, what would you like to leave our listeners with today?
[00:54:55] . I want to leave our listeners with a little something that helped me get through when I [00:55:00] was dealing with my failed pregnancies and the fear. I just talked like my, my OBGYN was like, she knew that I was going to have PTSD.
[00:55:11] Kellie: So she recommended a therapist to me and she goes, But I'll be honest with you. She's like, and I don't say this to people, Maggie knows this about me. She's like, if you choose not to go to therapy, which I advocate for therapy and I'm a sh*t patient.
[00:55:26] Cause I never follow through. I'm terrible. Don't listen to me on therapy, but just talk things out and you will be surprised how many people. Either have shared experiences and have never talked about them.
[00:55:40] Maggie: Yeah.
[00:55:40] Kellie: That's what my OBGYN said.
[00:55:42] She's like the one person I'm not really concerned about is you because you will talk to anybody about it. I would talk to people in the waiting room about what I was going through.
[00:55:50] If they don't want to listen, they won't listen. They don't have to listen, you know, cause they're not captive. And, but, but people you'll be surprised at who will connect with what you have to say [00:56:00] and how cathartic it can actually be. Yes. don't ever feel like you're oversharing because we're, we all overshare, we should overshare.
[00:56:09] Maggie: I think we should. have a little bit of discernment on some level, I do believe that. I mean, the name of my counseling business is cathartic counseling, because simply by sharing, by opening up, this is why this podcast is so important to both of us is normalizing what it's like to be a childfree person.
[00:56:25] We live. Pretty quote unquote traditional or normal lives.
[00:56:29] And when we just share, this is what it's like to be a woman. This is what it's like to be a woman who chooses not to have kids. Or chooses not to pursue motherhood any longer in our lives.
[00:56:41] That's what this whole pod is about. So, I'm so glad that everyone is here. This has been amazing.
[00:56:46] If you liked this episode, please subscribe so that you hear us a couple of times a month. Come and join this, this chat where we I don't know. We talk about all the things, being a woman, being childfree, living, share us, share us on all of your [00:57:00] platforms.
[00:57:00] Absolutely. Because the more people who talk about our childfree lifestyles and normalize it and mainstream it, maybe people will get off our back.
[00:57:09] Kellie: Yeah, right. I know. I know. Bye.